Navien CR 210 Tankless Water Heater

Author:  Rick Fox

I am certainly not an expert on the subject of tankless water heaters, but I did just research the subject, purchase, and install one. And so far, after a few days, it seems like we did OK.

Our conventional water heater had started to make clanking groaning noises any time it was pushed into action. As it was pushing 15 years old it seemed prudent that we consider replacing it. I had seen several articles indicting how much more efficient tankless water heaters were than the conventional water heater with a tank. One other requirement we had was to improve our ability to have enough hot water to fill  Tracy ’s deluxe spa tub. This has proven to be a big improvement, where the old standard tank water heater would regularly run out, the continuous nature of a tankless model keeps delivering hot water when you want it.

When looking at tankless water heaters you need to understand how much water it can heat per minute, since it heats it as you ask for it. The specifications tell you that a certain model can heat say 5 gallons a minute by 80 degrees or 8 gallons per minute by 50 degrees. So in the winter at our house the water coming into the house may be 45 degrees, so to get the hot water to the typical hot water temperature of 125 you need it to heat the water by 80 degrees. So you will be limited to 5 gallons per minute. Is that enough? Well, I took a 5 gallon bucket to the bath tub, figuring that would take the most hot water of any thing in our house, and timed how long it took to fill. It was just over a minute – so based on this simple test it seemed the model I’d selected would work. If you have four showers and a washing machine all going in the morning before work at your house, you’d need to devise a test to see how much hot water per minute this would require to be your limit.

An open view of the tankless water heater

After some research on the web, and some calls to some plumbers who install tankless heaters, I choose the Navien 98% CR210 made by a South Korean company. To get this brand I had to call Kroeschen Supply in Toluca , since they were the only company that carried this brand and were also enrolled in the state Energy Star rebate program. My web research found two problems that caused me to go with this more expensive brand. The first was the common brands available at the big box home improvement stores that fit most of my technical requirements, was panned for poor quality in a number of on-line reviews. The other was a technical issue; the model I choose was more efficient which meant lower temperature exhaust, which meant it could be vented with PVC pipe vs. double walled stainless steel vent pipe. This was important because the PVC pipe is the same size as the metal vent pipe from my conventional water heater. The double walled vent pipe is 2 inches bigger in diameter than that so it would have involved a major construction project just to install the new vent pipe. Also of note, the new water heater required a 3/4″ gas line where the old only had 1/2″.

The model I choose was $1600, then minus a $390 state EnergyStar rebate, minus a 30% federal tax credit for another $420 off. This brought it down to $790 plus sales tax. This compared to a typical water heater which costs about $350.  The company web site suggests to expect it to save approximately $80 per year in energy costs over a typical tank water heater. So ignoring installation cost (which is arguably not totally fair since replacing with a conventional model would have been simpler and cheaper) if the new water heater lasts for more that 6 years it will pay for itself. And, that doesn’t include the reduced carbon emissions.

I was able to get my new water heater installed, in a grueling weekend, without paying the professionals. I was quoted approximately $1000+ for installation.  I did end up spending a little over $300 in additional supplies by the time the new vent piping and re-plumbing was done.

Now to figure out how to get the old water heater recycled?

–  Rick

Feel free to comment on this story or to share your own experience with tankless water heaters.  We’d love to hear from you!

There’s a new curbside recycling program in town! The City of Peoria, Peoria County Recycling & Conservation Department and the Global Warming Solutions Group of Central Illinois are conducting a contest for Peoria’s school, church, and civic groups with $1,500.00 available in cash prizes. The contest is sponsored by Peoria County’s Department of Recycling and Resource Conservation, Midwest Fiber Recycling, and Rehrig Pacific.

What is it?

Peoria Recycling Contest. A contest to increase the number of City of Peoria households that participate in the new curbside recycling program.

How do organizations get involved?

Use the organizer’s packet from our contest page to get started or contact Kiersten Sheets at (309)251-4950.

What can be won?

Prizes awarded based on the number of curbside recyclers your group recruits:

• First Prize – One $500 prize
• Second Prize – Two $250 prizes
• Third Prize – Three $100 prizes
• Extra Effort Prize – $200 to the organization with the individual signing up the most households

The contest runs from February 15, 2010 to April 15, 2010. Winners will be announced at the Forest Park Nature Center Earth Day Celebration on April 24, 2010 at 1:30 p.m. at the Global Warming Solutions Group table.

PDC has put together information for Peoria on their web site.  WTVP has also produced an informational video on the details of the new curbside recycling program for the City of Peoria.  H Wayne Wilson interviews PDC Vice President Matt Coulter and Municipal Sales Manager Joe Roberts as they demonstrate how the recycle bin is used and what items can be recycled.  Through the program, PDC expects to save 35,000 gallons of diesel fuel and lessen their carbon footprint.  The video and other general information are available to view through PDC’s web site at the following link:

www.pdcarea.com/peoria

An informational fact sheet was published in the Peoria Journal Star that spells out details of the program and lists specific items that are accepted.  You may download, view, and print a copy from the PDC web site at the following link:

Recycling Services – 4 Page Insert

What happens to my recyclables until April?

While PDC has taken over trash pickup services already, the curbside recycling program rolls out beginning April 2nd.  In the meantime, Waste Management has agreed to continue their curbside pickup for those who were already subscribed to the service.  You may also continue to use the recycling drop off locations maintained by Peoria County throughout the city.  Visit the Peoria County Recycling web site here:  www.peoriacounty.org/recycle

I subscribed to the Waste Management curbside program.  Am I automatically enrolled in the PDC program?

No.  You must opt-in to the new program through PDC by phone at 309-674-5176 or through their web site at www.pdcarea.com/peoria.

What happens if I have more recyclables that will fit in my bin?  Can I get another one?

Recycle Bin Used by Waste Management

Generally speaking, you may want to consider acquiring a second bin.  Each bin requires a the $50 refundable deposit, but there service remains free.  As a temporary solution, you may place overflow in a recycle bin such as the tubs used during the Waste Management program.

Where are the recyclables taken once you have picked them up?

Recyclables picked up through the curbside program are taken to Midwest Fiber and are eventually transported to Chicago for processing.  Currently, there are no plants in the area that can process residential recycling.

I have heard that prescription medications should never be flushed down the toilet or thrown in the trash.  What do I do with medications that are expired or simply no longer needed?

The Illinois Environmental Protection Agency provides a fact sheet with details about this complex issue at their web site here.  In short, they encourage you to take them to a local program or save your prescriptions until the next one-day Hazardous Waste Event for the area.

PDC doesn’t accept hazardous waste items such as motor oil, batteries, and chemical cleaners.  What do I do with these items?

The best advice is to wait for another Illinois EPA sponsored Hazardous Waste Event to come to central Illinois.  When a date is announced, dDetails will be available through the Peoria County web site and here at the Global Warming Solutions Group web site.

Recycling Services – 4 Page Insert

The vote determined that Peoria Disposal Company (PDC) will be the design contractor and builder of Landfill #3.  Only one person voted against the contract proposal.  Citizen suggestions for deferral were refused.  Although this is a complicated subject and there are many more public discussions ahead, we should all hope that significant changes can be made as this contract is further examined.  So far, there has been no victory for the environment.

One bright light is the promise from the Landfill Committee Chairman that all written questions would be answered in public and in writing by both The Committee staff and PDC staff. These questions and answers will be published on this website. Hopefully the questions will have positive answers about taxpayer financial risk, inappropriate use of perpetual funds, and the need for adequate public opportunity to participate in the process.

The continued inclusion of recently delisted (formerly called hazardous) waste as part of the municipal waste put into the City & County Landfill is a big concern, especially one particular ‘delisted’ waste item called electric arc furnace dust. this stuff is a toxic soup of heavy metals, furans and dioxin.

One of the big  financial problems in this agreement involves money from a perpetual care fund for landfill #3 being used to pay for problems on Landfill #1 which has no fund. Over $4 million will be required in the first of what will probably become many major repairs needed to Landfill #1, which closed 11 years ago. Landfill #2 is currently in use, and will soon be operated by PDC.

Stay tuned for more updates.  Download the contract here:  PDC Landfill Contract.

For more information:

• View our dedicated page to the landfill topic here.
• Peoria City-County Landfill Committee
• Peoria City-County Landfill